Phil Zuckerman will go down in history as the man who launched the first degree in secular studies. Zuckerman, professor at Pitzer College in California, is leading the charge on studying the rise of secularism. While much, if not most, of the academic research of the past has focused on the role of religion, he is working to shift the “weight of scholarship.”

Though there is an increase in the category of “nones,” those who don’t affiliate with a particular established religion, this hasn’t seemed to move the needle of belief in God. Many of the “non-religious” still believe. Cultural developments like this are as complex as they are interesting.

To that end, Albert Mohler, president of Southern Seminary, recently interviewed Zuckerman about the new program in secular studies. I found their dialogue to be delightfully winsome and engaging. Check out the podcast here, it will be a worthy investment of your time.